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Double mid side, part 3: comparing with native B-format

August 12, 2025
Double mid side with Schoeps CCM mics (left) and horizontal B-format with Sennheiser MKH 8000 mics (right).

In Part 1 of this three-part series of musings on double mid side (DMS), I went through the three rigging options; in Part 2 I tested the options; but in this final part, as the title says, I do something rather different, which is compare DMS to horizontal B-format (i.e. native B-format with no vertical component).

As we have seen in the previous posts, setting up DMS with side-address mid mics produces an array that looks very similar to a horizontal native B-format, or Nimbus-Halliday, array. In that case, a horizontally-oriented omni mic is flanked by vertically oriented fig 8s, one aimed forwards-backwards and one aimed sideways. In a variation of this, which I have used too, the omni can be set vertically as is one fig 8, with the second fig 8 set horizontally between the two: this variation is designed to address the directionality of the omni mic at higher frequencies in the plane of the mic body (a consequence of the mic body itself). I described and illustrated the two different horizontal B-format arrays in my pipe band recording blog posts last year. The similarity between horizontal B-format and DMS is not just that the two rigs look so alike, but also how they perform since, as Wittek et al (Wittek, H., Haut, C., and Keinath, D., Double M/S – a Surround recording technique put to test (Schoeps paper, 10.03.2010) note:

In principle, Double-M/S signals can also be converted to “horizontal B-format” by addition and subtraction:
W = Mfront+ Mrear;
X = Mfront- Mrear;
Y = S;

In this formula, the W (omni mic) is formed by combining the front and rear cardioids, and the X (forward-rearward facing fig 8) by again using the two cardioids, albeit subtracting one from the other. In that limited sense, deriving B-format from DMS is akin to deriving it from ambisonic (A-format) arrays of cardioids.

So the questions remain: if DMS and horizontal B-format are mathematically equivalent, do they sound the same and, either way, are there pros and cons for selecting either array? This, needless to say, is more complex than you might think, as it rather depends on the use of the array. For example, even if not ideal and demanding care when decoding, DMS can be used with a shotgun microphone, typically when such a narrow polar pattern is required principally as a mono mic (say for dialogue in production sound), but giving scope for flexible stereo or surround sound when needed, without changing the rig. The shotgun can be a mono mic with a fig 8 and a rear-facing cardioid clipped to it, or a stereo shotgun (i.e. with a integrated fig 8 capsule, such as the Sennheiser MKH 8018) with a rear-facing cardioid clipped to it. In this regard DMS has no equivalent in horizontal B-format in any practical sense.

Both arrays can and often are used for stereo recording: both allow mid-side recording with a variable polar pattern for the mid mic, and, indeed, steering of the stereo sound after the event. With DMS the mid mic polar pattern is created by mixing the two back-to-back cardioids, in the same way that a variable-pattern mid mic works: only the cardioid pattern is native to the mid mic. With horizontal B-format the mid mic polar pattern is created by mixing the omni mic and forward-rearward facing fig 8: this also gives you, natively (i.e. without mixing), a fig 8 mid mic and an omni mid mic. I use all three native mid mic polar patterns for MS, so wouldn’t choose between the two approaches on these grounds: besides, you may recall my previous test comparing a cardioid to a virtual cardioid created by my mixing a fig 8 and an omni, which showed little to no difference in the sound other than the more extended bass of the virtual cardioid arising from the use of the pure pressure omni. Well, at least the sound was very similar, but I do wonder, in the light of my DMS and horizontal B-format comparisons (below) whether the polar pattern was quite the same.

Comparing a cardioid MKH 8040 (top) with a virtual cardioid made by mixing a fig 8 MKH 8030 (centre) and omni MKH 8020 (bottom).

It is this extended low-frequency response that is perhaps the most distinctive difference between horizontal B-format and DMS when used for stereo. This difference is acknowledged in the Schoeps DMS plugin, however, which, as the user guide makes clear, ‘normalizes the sensitivity of the CCM 8 to match the CCM 2’s and compensates for the low frequency loss of the figure-of-eight microphone’: the CCM 8 being the fig 8, of course, and the CCM 2 being Schoeps’s flat (free-field) omni in the same CCM range.

Lineside at Holt station (getting some odd looks and banter as usual, not least from the signalmen) for a DMS vs horizontal B-format comparison, as a Grange class locomotive pulls the train towards Sheringham.

Although rigging DMS with side-address cardioids provides the most obvious physical similarity with horizontal B-format, for my test purposes comparing these two rigs isn’t ideal: the Schoeps mics for the DMS rig are quite different from my Sennheiser mics for the horizontal B-format set-up. In my initial tests with these two rigs, I felt I was more demonstrating the difference between the mics than comparing the different configurations. Using end-address cardioids opens up more options, but, without three MKH 8030 fig 8s here (yet!), the best I can manage is DMS with two MKH 8040s and one MKH 30 vs horizontal B-format with two MKH 8030s and one MKH 8020. The MKH 8030 and MKH 30 are not identical, but, as we have seen before, they are fairly close. So with these two rigs in Mega-Blimps, I headed off to the local steam railway, hacking my way through the brambles and bracken to get to a point just beyond the station platform.

First up, we have the individual files for each of the three mics in each array. The files can be downloaded, and have been level-matched using the published sensitivities:

And here we have the files identically processed using the Harpex-X plug-in to stereo files as a coincident pair of hypercardioids at 127 degrees (i.e. equivalent to cardioid MS with a 50:50 balance between mid and side mics):

For some deeper bass, I then compared the two arrays back at home, starting the car to get some nice low-frequency content and, while at it, the usual Foley-like footsteps, gate openings etc. Again, here are the individual files for each of the three mics in each array:

And, again, here we have the files identically processed in Harpex-X to stereo files as a coincident pair of hypercardioids at 127 degrees (i.e. equivalent to cardioid MS with a 50:50 balance between mid and side mics):

The increased bass of the horizontal B-format array is more noticeable with the car engine than the steam locomotive, as you would expect, but both sets of recordings show broader differences between the two techniques. Some of these differences, mainly for the garden recording where there are close sounds, are an inevitable consequence of the spacing of the two rigs (about 1m apart), but there are very obvious differences that go beyond the fact that the two rigs could not be exactly coincidental. The localisation of even distant sounds is quite different. With the uncertainty of what is going on in the various DMS and B-format plug-ins, it is worth looking at a manual MS decode for the two pairs. For the DMS rig, standard MS was simply derived by using the fig 8 MKH 30 and the forward-facing cardioid MKH 8040 (i.e. ignoring the rear-facing cardioid). With the horizontal B-format all three mics were required, first creating a virtual cardioid from a 50:50 mix of the forward-rearward facing fig 8 MKH 8030 and the omni MKH 8020, and then using this as an MS pair with the sidewards-facing fig 8 MKH 8030. Here are the resultant two files for the steam locomotive departing recording:

These two MS pairs, decoded to LR, show very similar results to the DMS and horizontal B-format recordings output to stereo. In both cases the stereo field is rather different, with the B-format derived stereo having less stereo spread. You can hear this in the sample files, but, for a visualization, here are the goniometer plots showing the steam locomotive whistle at the beginning of the railway recording for both the DMS/horizontal B-format recordings output to stereo via Harpex-X and for the two MS equivalents that were derived manually. I chose the whistle as a short clear sound located well off to one side (the left).

Goniometer on train whistle for DMS (left) and horizontal B-format (right), both processed in Harpex-X and output to stereo (XY with hypercardioids at 127 degrees).
Goniometer on train whistle for MS using MKH 8040 and MKH 30 (left) and MKH 8020+MKH 8030 (creating virtual cardioid) and MKH 8030 – i.e. manually derived from horizontal B-format (right), decoded to stereo.

In both instances the whistle in the B-format example (or MS derived from combining the omni and forward-facing fig 8 in the B-format rig to create a virtual cardioid, then used with the side-facing fig 8) is rendered a little more centrally. Of course, this is very easy to adjust with DMS or B-format recordings, so, in some sense, is not a practical issue, but the point is that there is a difference and it isn’t simply the result of the behind-scenes mechanics of the conversion plug-in. This suggests that the mathematical combination of an omni and fig 8 to make a cardioid and the practical implementation of this don’t quite match, which is not entirely surprising: factoring in the different sensitivities of the two mics is an obvious source of possible error, changing the resultant polar pattern, although the audible differences suggest – at least to my ears – that perhaps there is more to this than that factor only.

Conclusions

If ever there was a misleading subheading, then this is it: ‘conclusions’ suggests something far more, er, conclusive than I can offer. First up among caveats, my end-use of either DMS or horizontal B-format is primarily for stereo output. Testing the different rigs with a decent, say, 5.1 system would be an interesting exercise, but at least the files above for individual mics will allow others to do that and see if they can draw any conclusions: indeed, that is the primary purpose of the blog post. The second significant caveat is the evident difficult in getting parity between rigs: using an all Sennheiser MKH approach helped, rather than the Schoeps to Sennhesier comparison, but the MKH 30 is not absolutely identical to an MKH 8030, and, of course, it meant that I had to use end-address cardioids for the DMS rig. I could have used an all Rycote mic approach (I have enough BD-10 fig 8s to achieve this), but the longer mic bodies would not have worked for horizontal B-format in the Mega-Blimp (even that has limits!). However, the previous tests comparing DMS with end-address vs side-address cardioids made me much more sanguine about such an approach. Hopefully something is left that, at the very least, provides readers with food for thought: perhaps even to compare horizontal B-format with DMS themselves.

From my own perspective, the ground I have covered in the tests, many necessarily not included here for reasons of space, for these three DMS blog-posts, along with the practicalities of rigging, the key conclusions I have drawn are:

i) use of end-address cardioids (or. at least, very small SDCs, such as MKH 8000 mics with MZLs or the diminutive Nevatons) for DMS has negligible impact on sound resulting from shadowing and, even, off-centre cardioids, especially compared to the impact of most windshields (OK, that’s not relevant to much indoor recording);

ii) there is, therefore, little reason in most circumstances to go for the more transparent approach of using side-address cardioids for DMS, although, of course, no reason to not do so if the mics are available (suitable windshield permitting if outdoors);

iii) unless the low-frequency response of an omni is critical, then there seems no advantage – at least with the mics and usage I have – of horizontal B-format over DMS.

So, going forward, although I plan to utilize both three-mic rigs in the future, I suspect that I will be using DMS more than horizontal B-format, not least as it allows a wider range of my mics to be used: most obviously, the Nevatons I have acquired recently. But equally, and with my predominantly stereo-focused approach in mind, I will continue to use MS far more (or, indeed, other stereo pairs). Certainly the flexibility of horizontal B-format or DMS in terms of selecting polar pattern or, less of an issue, steering the array in post, are insufficient grounds to merit their use for most cases where a stereo end-product is required. I’m very happy with knowing which way to point the mics (!) and happy enough, with MS, to select the mid-mic polar pattern that will suit the job best be that an omni, wide-cardioid, cardioid, supercardioid or fig 8. That said, I occasionally need to produce surround sound field recordings (e.g. recently a recording of the sea for the intro to a pipe-organ SACD – Organ Fantasy by Jean-Paul Imbert and his students) so horizontal B-format and DMS will continue to be part of my recording life.

Audio Gear

Double mid side, part 2: comparing the different rigging options

July 22, 2025
DMS with Schoeps CCM4V side-address cardioids and CCM8 fig 8: the ideal configuration, and in the most transparent mount and windshield I can muster, but does it actually out-perform other setups?

Introduction

In Part 1 of this three-part blog-post on double mid-side I covered the rigging options for DMS using SDC mics. In this second part, I explore the differences between the rigging options, focusing on the option with side-by-side end-address cardiods and the, theoretically, rather better option with side-address cardioids: are there any audible differences? And I also include some clips of recordings to give a sense of the differences between different DMS set ups: that doesn’t just mean how the mics are configured, but, also, different mics.

Shadowing

One of the criticisms thrown at any configuration of coincident mics, but especially at those with multiple mics, is of the impact of shadowing, where elements of the mic shock-mounts or, more substantially, adjacent mics colour the sound. Of the three DMS configurations that with the most obvious shadowing is, of course, the option with side-by-side cardiods: you wouldn’t normally choose to stick something the size of mic immediately adjacent to and projecting forward from a cardioid mic capsule and there is no doubt that, visually, it looks clunky. But does it sound noticeably different?

For those interested, I did some tests on the shadowing effect in such a clustered DMS rig (using MKH 8000 mics), recording pink noise played bay through one of my Vivid S12 monitors to the forward-facing cardioid in the DMS array, and then moved the fig 8 and rear-facing cardioid away (the mics were carefully set up with a separate stand for the forward-facing mic so that it remained exactly in position when the other mics were removed). This was done with the mic on axis and then 45 degrees off axis, so that, in the latter, the body of the rear-facing mic was shadowing the forward mic.

Pink noise recording by forward-facing MKH 8040 cardioid mic on axis to sound source with mic clear (green) and within DMS rig (red).
Pink noise recording by forward-facing MKH 8040 cardioid mic at 45 degrees to sound source with mic clear (green) and within DMS rig (red).

You can see from the spectrograms below that there was more of an impact on the high frequencies as expected at 45 degrees. Of itself this doesn’t show whether the differences of the single, unimpeded, cardioid mic vs the identically positioned mic within its DMS cluster are significant, so, by way of comparison we can look at some similar tests exploring the impact of two windshields (which I have shown previously). First we have the MKH 8030 with the Min-ALTO 115 basket turned side-on to the speaker source so that the fig 8 mic is on axis to the sound source:

Pink noise test with Mini-ALTO 115 with MKH8030 fig 8 mic aimed at speaker: green is the bare mic on the shock-mount and the red overlay is the recording with the basket added.

And for another comparison, here is the same fig 8 test repeated with a Rycote Cyclone.

Pink noise test with Cyclone (small) with MKH8030 fig 8 mic aimed at speaker: green is the bare mic on the shock-mount and the red overlay is the recording with the basket added.

In short, the impact of shadowing in the DMS mic array is measurable, but is far less significant than the impact of these two windshields, where the fig 8 (obviously a key element of DMS) is affected by the structure of the windshield baskets, with the particularly noticeable difference in the Cyclone basket doubtless largely due to the substantial plastic ring for its end cap.

And to return to our shadowing tests for the DMS rig, we can listen to how the effect of shadowing actually sounds. I used the same means of removing the fig 8 and rear-facing cardioid without disturbing the forward-facing cardioid’s position as before, and again placed the mics in front of a single speaker (Vivid S12) in my studio and played back a short section of a recent recording of mine of a singer-guitarist (Luke Chapman), angling the mics on axis to the speaker and then at 45 degrees. Here are the resulting mono sound files:

First, here is the pair of recordings of the forward-facing cardioid mic on axis, with no surrounding mics, and then shadowed within the cluster of DMS mics:

Second, here is the pair of recordings of the forward-facing cardioid mic at 45 degrees, with no surrounding mics, and then shadowed within the cluster of DMS mics (the body of the rear-facing cardioid mic shadowing the forward-facing mic in particular):

Obviously, comparisons should not be made between the on-axis and the 45-degree recordings as, by definition, the mic has moved!

I suspect many listening to these examples may be surprised by how little difference there is between the two recordings (clear mic and shadowed mic) in each set up (on axis and at 45 degrees). Certainly, I was reassured that shadowing effects are less than might be feared with this more clustered version of the two options that use end-address cardioids. Obviously use of longer and larger mics (think two MKH 40s and an MKH 30) would have a greater effect, but, conversely, two still shorter cardioids (think of those 23.5mm-long Nevaton MC59uS/C2 mics) would reduce the effect more (subject to the impact of any mounts).

Of course, shadowing is only one potential downside with the clustered DMS rig with two side-by-side cardioids: both cardioids are necessarily offset from the centre of the fig 8 capsule, typically by around 12mm or more. With MS normally the recordist aims to align the mics so that one capsule is precisely directly above the other and as close as possible. Losing that vertical alignment, of course, risks introducing comb filtering to sounds directed at the mics from the horizontal plane (or whatever plane the mics are tilted toward): likewise, increasing the vertical spacing between the mics will introduce more comb filtering and narrow the horizontal band where the effects are minimal or non-existent. The last isn’t an issue with DMS with two side-by-side cardioids (indeed, it can allow the vertical distance between the fig 8 and cardioid capsules to reduce), but the former is: the question, again, is does this matter? I have heard the results of MS recordings of classical music with the mics side-by-side, which sound fine (for example search out the recordings of ex-BBC engineer, Roger Long, who, as ‘Rolo46’, has posted many marvellous MS classical music recordings on Gearspace using side-by-side MS mics, mostly with an MKH 30 pair), but do the theorists, who frown at such setups, have a point? My aim was to test this, simplifying matters by doing so with an MS pair, comparing vertically aligned mics with one with the mid mic offset as if for this DMS configuration, but, try as hard as I could, I simply could not get any method to work convincingly: I tried indoors with a single speaker, but comb filtering for the shifted mid mic was obscured by comb filtering from the room (few studios are entirely free of comb filtering: and evidently mine isn’t!), and I tried outdoors (the poor man’s anechoic chamber!), but just couldn’t get reliable, repeatable or convincing results. Perhaps I will have a moment or revelation and work out what I need to do, but in the meantime I’m sorry to have come up short: you’ll just have to hang your hat on whichever side of the debate convinces you most . And, of course, one can learn something from the comparative field recordings below (or, better, your own), which compare the different rigs in action.

Minimizing the impact of the shadowing of end-address cardioid mics when rigged side-by-side with the ultra-short Nevaton MC59uS/C2 mics.

Field testing the different DMS rigs

On which note, I left behind such tests and took the mics into the field, to compare some real DMS rigs. This looked at a combination of different rigging approaches and, closely related, different microphones. I could have added a third variable of different windshields, but, to make things more fairly comparable, I have stuck with the same windshields in each set of field of tests. Being unadventurous (or just lazy?!), the tests comprise a series of my regular ‘quiet’ village street recordings: birdsong (plenty of swifts screaming overhead this summer), passing cars, and a bit of Foley-esque sound (as I open doors and gates, and stomp around aimlessly) cover quite a few bases. The cocker spaniels even joined in at one point with a bit of snuffling (honest, it wasn’t me!).

First off, I set up two rigs comprising the Schoeps CCM4V side-address cardioids and CCM8 fig 8 trio, and the Sennheiser MKH 8040 cardioids and MKH 8030 fig 8 mics for DMS with the mics side-by-side, recording with a Sound Devices 788T at 24bit/96kHz. In both cases I used Mega-Blimps for the windshields. With such large surround sound rigs two seems a sensible limit: three or more would mean that they are spaced rather too far apart to be comparable. Here is a short clip (1:34) of the resultant recordings, with one mono file for each mic (levels balanced according to mic sensitivity, but with no other processing) so that you can play around with them in, say, the Schoeps DMS or Harpex-X plugins: I use both for DMS processing.

a) Sennheiser:

b) Schoeps:

c) and here are two stereo files, generated in Reaper using Harpex-X (with the Blumlein stereo preset):

Second, here are the mono files for a similar test comparing DMS with the Sennheiser MKH 8040 cardioids and MKH 8030 fig 8 mics vs the Nevaton MC59uS/C2 and MC59/8 mics, again using Mega-Blimps for both rigs:

d) Sennheiser:

e) Nevaton

f) and here are two stereo outputs, generated using Harpex-X (with the Blumlein stereo preset):

And, finally, here are the mono files for another garden test, this time with a bit of wind (but no low-pass filtering applied), comparing DMS with the Schoeps CCM4V side-address cardioids and CCM8 fig 8 vs the Nevaton MC59uS/C2 and MC59/8 mics, again using Mega-Blimps for both rigs:

g) Schoeps:

h) Nevaton:

i) and here are two stereo outputs, generated using Harpex-X (with the Blumlein stereo preset):

Now anyone who downloads all those files and listens to them deserves a medal!

Conclusions

It is extraordinarily difficult to draw conclusions that are relevant to others’ use of DMS (not least since the use of side-address and end-address cardioids inherently means using different mics), but, nonetheless, I will have a stab at this. First off, although generally relaxed about multi-mic coincident pairs and the impacts of shadowing and small offsets, I came into these tests with an expectation that the acoustic problems of side-by-side cardioids in what is doubtless the most popular configuration of DMS would be more noticeable than they have proved to be. In reality, and that is with the caveat that I have not been testing DMS with bulkier SDCs such as the MKH 30 and MKH 40, they are much less significant than the impact of many windshields, especially those that were not designed to offer as much transparency to the sides and rear as to a forward-facing directional mic. So, if the aim is to place a DMS rig in a Radius Windshields Mini-ALTO or a Rycote Cyclone, then the consequences of the mic configuration are nothing compared to the impact of the windshield. However, if using a windshield with much better all round transparency such as the Cinela Pianissimo or, if boom pole use is not needed, one of my Mega-Bimps, then the impact of the different configurations will come into play. But this then gets very complex for several reasons: yes, the Schoeps CCM4V side-address cardioids and CCM8 fig 8 offer good alignment and little no shadowing (both from the other mics and the mounts), so using them in a Cinela Zephyx (for lightness) or Mega-Blimp (for more transparency) would offer the best performance from that perspective. But, at the same time, they have higher self-noise than the MKH 8030 + 2x MKH 8040 setup and lack the more humidity-proof RF technology of the Sennheiser mics. And, of course, the Nevaton MC59/8 + 2x MC59uS/C2 rig offers the most minimal shadowing for DMS with side-by-side cardioids (due to the very short length of the cardioids) as well as the lowest self-noise. As for the sound, well that’s one for individuals. I think the Nevaton DMS rig is the best sounding irrespective of mic configuration, but I may be missing something that more refined ears can pick up. Or perhaps it is just taste: it’s not as if top end classical music recordists all prefer the same mics or the same mics for a specific task.

And, just to add complexity where you don’t need it, I was surprised by the difference between the two plugins I have been using – Schoeps’s own DMS plugin and Harpex-X. In part, at least, this seems a product of the Schoeps plugin having built-in gain and frequency response compensation for its mics (which, evidently, isn’t appropriate for other mics), but the upshot is that it is very easy to get more significant differences by processing the recordings differently than it is from the actual mics or configurations used.

If you have all these mics (or, indeed, other good options) the selection criteria will need to balance all these factors: if you have some of the mics only, then that will simplify the choices; and if you have none of the options, but are thinking of one, then the usefulness of the mics for different purposes are likely to come into play (e.g. would you have use for Schoeps CCM4V side-address cardioids, or would end-address cardioids be more use?).

As for my choices? Well, I don’t own the Schoeps mics, so that does simplify things as the advantages of side-address cardioids wasn’t clear enough for me to buy the mics (especially with no other Schoeps mics in my locker), so DMS for me will be MKH 8000 mics (for tougher conditions) in a Mega-Blimp; otherwise, I will be using the Nevaton MC59/8 + 2x MC59uS/C2 rig in the same windshield for, as I said, to my ears, the best sound and, less subjectively, for even lower self-noise. And for ultra-compact DMS, should I ever need it, I would use either rig in a Nanoshield (the Nevaton DMS won’t fit in a Mini-ALTO, and the Sennheiser rig isn’t suited to the Mini-ALTO due to the fig 8 position in relation to the chunky plastic rings). But, the question I still need to address for my own use is whether DMS is preferable to horizontal B-format: and that, of course, is for Part 3 of my DMS blog-post series!